Joshua David, Fractional CMO & Brand Strategy Leader, Speaker & Executive Storyteller

Kirk and Andy sit down with marketing and brand strategist Joshua David for a conversation that starts with a joke about his very long bio and quickly goes somewhere much more honest.

Josh traces his path from working hotel front desks (including a stint in London that convinced him he was in the wrong industry) to community management, influencer marketing in New York, and eventually running social for Ebony, where he grew the platform from 200,000 to nearly a million organic followers before he turned 25. Along the way he crossed paths with a who's who of names, but the real story is what he learned about himself in those rooms.

Mostly, this is a candid talk about being real in spaces that reward performance. The guys get into authenticity versus code-switching, what it costs to be the only person of color in the room, why Josh leaves a job before they start to hate him, and the price of doing the one thing you don't want to do just to reach the next rung. There's a lot on the tension between caring too much and protecting your own peace, plus a hard look at how companies say they want you to shake the table right up until you actually do.

Funny, blunt, and occasionally uncomfortable in the best way. Come for the industry stories, stay for the truth-telling.

The Kirk and Kurtts Design Podcast. Kirk Visola, founder and creative director of Mind the Font, and Andy Kurtts, founder and creative director of Buttermilk Creative.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Kirk and Kurtz 104. For the real, not the real.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

You always chopping it up as the same thing. Yeah, absolutely. Chill, so relaxed, no, like. So tell us about your journey. Oh, well, where can I start?

SPEAKER_03 0:24

No, no, no, no, no. We're good. We're good.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Okay. I'm Kirk Vaisola. I'm the founder and creative director of Mind the Font. And I'm here with my good friend Andy Kurtz, founder and creative director of Buttermilk Creative. And this is the Kirk and Kurtz Design Podcast. Alright, well, whoa. Okay, guys. Andy came deep with that one. Okay. So today's today's guest is Joshua David. Josh is an accomplished marketing and brand strategist with a proven record of leading digital innovation, social media growth, and cross-functional initiatives. His experience spans partnerships with global brands like Dove Men's Care, McDonald's, and Meta, as well as overseeing social media transformations at organizations such as ABC and Ebony, where engagement rose by up to 122%. Josh has successfully led teams through large-scale digital campaigns, influencer initiatives, and sponsorship strategies generating over $500,000 in revenue. His strengths lie in writing very long descriptions about himself, data-driven insights, and creative execution to drive measurable, sustainable growth. He is also a very rooted, steadfast, and caring man. Please welcome to the show, Mr. Joshua David.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Oh, guys. That was good. Yeah, that was good. You you got me with that long, that long-ended description. I does, I does love me a little speech about me.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

You know, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

That's great.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Hey, man, it's great to talk about the most important person that you know, which is hello, right? Right? Thank you, guys. Thank you so much, Josh. Cool, grateful to be here, guys. Thank you for coming on, man. Um Josh and I have chopped it up so many times, and this is our first time doing a quote unquote real podcast, but every single conversation that we've had, it's just been like uplifting and fills my spirit because he always comes to things 100, always brings his best foot. He ain't he ain't gonna slide, let you slide on nothing either. He's gonna call you out, he's gonna make sure that you're you are doing your best to maintain your own sanity and psyche, and he does it in a loving and caring way. And I've always appreciated that from you, brother. Really appreciate it, man. So I'm happy you're on here. That means a lot, bro.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

But but the the feeling is very sentiment and and reverse that back to you because I think you know, obviously we've known each other since 2020 of like COVID, and that was kind of like where the floodgates of LinkedIn became a place where it's just like, hey, you know, my name is Andy, here's my new job, or here's my name is Josh. I got promoted, so then hi, my name is Kirk. I just sold some crack. You you know, like the floodgates opened, yeah, and it became after George Floyd, like it just got really weird. It became guerrilla warfare where it was just like, you know, everybody's outing out their business and their companies, and my boss sucks, and it just got very real very quickly. And I think even to this day, LinkedIn has no idea what it wants to do anymore ever since then. And um, you know, I'm just grateful to I think the content that I put out is just I don't I think people sometimes think it's might be shock value, but it's not. I just really say the the the quiet part out loud, and you know, Kirk and I have been able to resonate on just a lot of different things, and I think it's interesting because you'll meet so many people on LinkedIn and it's just so performative, it's just so like you know, hey, you know, what can I do for you? It's like I don't need from you. I just are you good? Like, do you have a pulse? Like, do you are you okay? And right you have people give you this like this get out look where it's like, do I need to bring out the teacup and like hit the side of it? Because and this is not this, it's everybody like white, black, purple, green. Everyone is just very like, are you well? And I just don't think people are well, and nobody's well, then especially right now, yeah. Which is which is fair, which is fair, but yeah, I I just really enjoy convos with you, Kirk, because it's just we just level set, and it's not about perfection, it's not about you know, well, dude, I'm making 40k on this client. It's just like, yo, are you good? Am I good? Is wifey good? Are the kids good? And you know, if there's any way we could just chop it up, pray about it, laugh about it, talk shit about it, and then move on. Like it's not this, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

I don't know, this again, performance is just such a real thing, you know. It makes sense. I think I think people often confuse um being authentic with having to be a certain way. Like I I try my best to be authentic, and I cuss all the fucking time. Like, I I cuss, I cuss around my kids, I cuss, even when they're little, I cuss around little kids, and it's like, hey, this is how I talk. And if you're offended by the words I'm saying as far as profanity goes, as opposed to actually listening to what I'm saying, and you got a bigger issue.

SPEAKER_04 5:27

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Um, and people don't like it when you're blunt, or people don't like it when you're direct and they call it aggressive, or they're just trying to get this, trying to get that. It's like, no, man, that's just how I am. Yeah, that's who I am, and I'm that way with everybody. I I talk to the the caterer caterer person at my job the same way I talked to the CEO. Like, you're the same person to me, right? Like, I'm not gonna sit there and play favorites, I'm gonna treat you how you in accordance to how you treat me, right? And I think that's such a valuable lesson doing this stuff, and with that authenticity, the things that you were doing when I first met you was a lot of social media and a lot of um event planning with horrible bosses and a lot of things of that nature, and and I think the reason why people are so attracted to you was that you you were able to see real shit, interpret real shit, and put out real shit. Yeah, and people like that. Like, what but what made you get into doing social media, like going down this path to begin with?

SPEAKER_03 6:29

You know, first of all, I appreciate you saying that, bro. And I and I and I really mean that because you know, there are times I'll hit up Kirk and I'll be like, should I just shut up? Like, I should probably just stop talking, right? Because there's times I have like these out-of-body experiences where I'm like, someone's gonna like clip me out of this game real quick because I I just don't I don't shut up, right? You know, and and and I think there's always a way to go about it. Like, I'm not being super messy, I'm just like, listen, this is A, this is B, and this is why you end up with like this shit pile of C. And I don't need to drag a company or do anything. I mean, I'll take a lawsuit for sure. I'll do that, but um, but but but I love what I do, I swear to God, I I really do. Like, prior to all of this, I was working in hotels. Like, I really thought I was gonna end up being a black hotel manager for a luxury hotel. Wake up call, ain't no black managers out there, so I was like, hmm, you know, I need to change my my career trajectory quickly, quickly. Um, after after I graduated college, I moved to London uh for this externship and I got to work at this like gorgeous luxury hotel. And y'all, I will never forget how prior to going into that business, I worked in restaurants, steakhouses, hotels all through college and even before that. So, why would I go all the way to London to go work at a front desk? So I went behind my manager's back and pitched myself to the to the hotel manager for a sales and marketing opportunity, and he greenlit it because my manager was like, Your job is to be at the front desk, and I was like, Okay, like you don't know me, like you know what I mean. And again, they don't send black people to London through FSU. So it was like I was this I was the unicorn on the brochures and all this stuff, you know. Right because God, you just talk so well. I love it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

I'm so glad to hear that this happened and this happens, and I'm so pissed to hear that that happened and this happens because people always saying shouldn't be a unicorn, yeah. Right, right. Yeah, people always saying, Oh, you play the race cards like motherfucker. I am the race card, I live the race card. Every experience that I have in any situation I go into, I'm a minority, especially in design. Yeah, like I've been doing this for a very long time, yeah. And and so being when I started almost three decades ago, there weren't any black designers, like hardly any. And you would know them, and like, oh, I know that dude, right? Or I've heard of that dude, just because like that's how few people there were, yeah. Um, fast forward to now, I still think we're only seven percent, yeah, or something like that, of social media and design and all that, and it's just it's just insane. So the fact that you have to work not twice as hard, but three to four times as hard and have the talent and be on point and not slip up, and also shoot your shot too, but you have to do it in such a way where you're yep, you're code switching and tight walking all the fucking time, and it gets tired.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

And and I've said this a zillion times. The one thing my mom did having us girl up and my pops, my pops was from Louisiana. He had a he had a southern draw still when he talked. And my mom was from Beaumont, and she didn't have a draw. She's she was California, and there's certain things she said, but she always read to us and she made us read and was always honest about our grammar and enunciation and shit. We said because she knew we'd be judged by it. So when you when you say, like, oh, you're you're so well spoken, it's like it's it's not it's not the compliment you think it is. That's uh so I I don't know why people say it. It's just like why wouldn't I be actor?

SPEAKER_03 10:14

Yeah, it's so it's so layered, Kirk. I I mean Andy, I don't know if you have anything that you want to add to that, but it it it's it's layered.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Andy sounds like a damn southern hick every time we're talking hi, I'm Andy Kirk. Hey y'all. When I first met Andy, I thought this dude's this dude's a racist.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

Oh well, I mean, I mean it's a roll of the dice, Andy. It doesn't mean that your accent's bad. It's just we're playing we're playing with fire, you know. I don't we don't know, we don't know until we know 50 in a point.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

I guess it's like 70-30. I mean, you know. Now, now now because of our era.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

5050, yeah. About about 70-30. But but but the whole concept of like enunciation, like imagine being in a place and you you have a resume that pre-conceives what they usually get. And I think the craziest part for me was like there was this one white female student who also went up there with me. She was in the advance internship, like they created it for her. So I was like, Well, y'all did that for her. What's the problem with creating one for me? Like, my resume speaks for itself, and you could just see how it irked everybody. And I'm like, Oh, God, I'm gonna be that problem child. Like, that's the rest of my career moving forward. I'm gonna be this problem child that is willing to say, like, hey, listen, I think it's great to be here, but I'm not gonna come to London and only work behind the desk. And so there was a lot of political drama that went and took place, and I will never forget, like, meeting Kay Michelle, um, Charlie Staren. Like, I met these incredibly famous people that are like, Why are you working in hotels? And I'll just be like, Whatever do you mean? What do you mean? And these people are like, You're in the wrong business, bro. And I'm like, What what do you mean? Like, people, I would check them in and you know, take them upstairs. Like, I got to meet a lot of you know, obviously, like well-established, rich British people. And there's nothing better than posh people being like, You need to get out of this business tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

They're like, they're like, You're you're wasting your time. All signs are pointing to yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yes, that's that's like the the seal of approval you need from strangers.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

A British person, like, listen, mate, listen, love you, but you're not in the right industry, like you're really not taking advantage. And I'm just like, what do you guys want me to do? They're like, I have no idea, but you're in the wrong industry, mate. And I'm just like, okay, so then I came back to the states and pivoted immediately. Got into it started off in doing, believe it or not, like community management for a lot of hotel brands at this small little boutique agency in Coral Gables, Miami. And then from there, I moved to New York. Um, I worked at an influencer marketing agency, and that was at that time, y'all, when we had the Paul brothers like on the cover of Ad Week and just like oh, these guys are it, these are the guy. And it's like I knew from back then, I'm like, something's weird here. These are weirdos. Um, but that was when we had influencers, that was the word, right? That was the buzzword, influencers, influencers with influencers, and that was back in the day before we had analytics, before we had proof of concepts, before we so Andy, you could have been like, hey, listen, I'm gonna get you 100,000 views on this photo, and bro, you're you're basically just bluffing the numbers like back then you could just lie, yeah, and you are collecting fat checks, fat checks, bro. You know what I mean? And there wasn't a lot of black influencers back then. There was tons. I mean, this was a very small market of racially ambiguous women, gorgeous women. Let me be very clear. But racially ambiguous women, the the the white comedic girls, goofy girls, and then you had like the black comedians, and that was the market, and so from there, I mean, the rest is pretty much history. Just like I went from like being hotels to just digital marketing, and I mean, like a rocket ship, like I moved to New York, was there for eight months. I did one winter, and I said, I think hate this. Yeah, who who signed anybody up? And I'm looking at all these people who who are like I went to school with, and I'm like, Do y'all know how ratchet this is? Like it's cold, there's everywhere. Yeah, the rats are huge. Like, I just didn't understand the concept of enjoying New York. I lived in Harlem, most of my social group was in Brooklyn. I eight months, y'all. Eight months, and I said, I am out of here. The plan was always to come to LA. The plan was always Los Angeles, all roads lead to LA. And I stopped in New York because I was like, all right, you got 5k. No, I had 8,000. I was like, you can either go to LA and be on the streets quicker than New York because the 8k lasts longer, in my opinion, in New York than it did in LA, to be honest with you. Like, I came to LA after New York with 12 G's, like, but I tell this to everybody, I think everyone should truly go to New York prior to moving to LA. I say they can make it.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

You can make it anywhere. 100%. 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yeah. Yeah. I growing up in California, being born and raised here, being born and raised in the Bible belt of California. I call it the Bible belt because living there is like living in the Midwest. Lots of lots of race pickup traps, uh, lots of American flags, Trump flags.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Very conservative.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah, super duper conservative. But yeah, I wouldn't change that experience growing up somewhere else because never had to shovel my driveway with snow. Never was never was parted with blizzards or possible tornadoes or humid humid days. I mean, California, people people talk shit about California, but I fucking love it here. I talk shit about LA because Southern California and Northern California are two different beasts. Yeah. Like they're two different things, man. So if someone says, Oh, California sucks, I say which which part, right? Because I don't care for LA just because unlike you, Josh, there's a lot of fake people in LA.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

I don't know what you're talking about. It's one of the most realist places you could ever come to.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Talking about, bro. People from LA are real. They are. The transplants are terrible, though. Oh my god, dude. Like, yeah, hey, I know you like people always ask, like, oh, I know, I say, Oh, I know you. I know you. Like, no, you don't. Aren't you like, no, I'm not? Like, I'm nobody. Like, oh, and they think, oh, you're just playing it off. Like, listen, motherfucker. If I was somebody, I just tell you to move on because I don't want to have this headache. But I've been asked every single time I'm down there. It's like people stare at me and it's like, what the fuck's wrong with you guys? Yeah, yeah, but but it's just like that whole idea of like needing to know somebody or having to know somebody or know something instead of just making connections and yeah, and transactional. And I always tell people, and this is why this works for you when you were in in in London, that people will buy you before they buy what you're selling. That so someone will talk to you and have a conversation with you and get to know you, and there's a relationship, and there's trust, and it's like, oh, what do you want? Yeah, like okay, well, if you're asking, here's what I want. But I was just vibing, like I was just vibing with you, and let's see what happens. And that's how a lot of my business happens, that's how a lot of relationships happen. It's just vibing. Yeah, and I think people people are always trying to vibe but look for look for a different edge. Like and how do you how do you maintain staying honest and and trying to come forth and and be the person you are without really thinking about well, who do I have to please? I because I I have to do that, I have to think about that, right?

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Yeah, it's exhausting though, right? Like, I I I tell this people all the time pattern recognition and self-awareness, I think, are you know, the more time goes by, people who I meet that are strategists, the more I realize, oh, you're just that utility knife. Like, I think a lot of people who are strategists um go into a job with one title, but then end up leaving doing four or five different things. And I think this whole notion of strategy, like what's the really the purpose? It's the why. Like, why is your business functioning the way that it is? What's the brand? What's the what's the color? What's the the the the messaging? All those things are constantly what's going through people's minds. And I think when you equate that to Kirk, the survival of being a professional in these spaces or a creative, you're constantly seeing, okay, where are the exits? What are the kind of people that I'm smoozing around? Like, all those things become inherent to doing the job well. And I think for me, London was this cultural awakening of me not having to think about being black every single minute of the day because you had all these different cultures around you. You had people as white as Andy with people twice as dark as me, having these beautiful children running around. Like, there's no guns, it's knife crimes, don't get me wrong. But like, it's this was a whole, it's different, right? And so New York was a teaching for me where I was just like, okay, this is what hustle culture is. And then LA was like, I'm gonna bring both of those experiences here and navigate. And I went from working at this small agency in Sherman Oaks, like my first time getting here. I remember walking into Tao Los Angeles, that was the hottest restaurant that just opened up in LA. They didn't even open, and I went in there, got a job the same day. Like, that's who I is. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not playing with y'all, like I'm here on a mission, I'm not here to make besties, I'm not here to I'm not here to get famous. I wanted to work amongst the the people that are making things happen, you know? Yeah, and I I just remember coming here and just keeping focused, and I'll never forget working at that restaurant. Here's the thing that people don't tell you about working in the restaurant business when you work in this field, especially when you hit that 10-year marker, it don't matter how nice the restaurant is, you're always gonna have the drug addicts, the alcoholics, the struggling actors, the struggling comedians, um, the person who's been there for 40 years and makes crazy money because they work every day and they're like religious to the company. But the the here's the thing people don't like when you know who you are and you go into those spaces because restaurant culture loves to figure out how you fit into their ecosystems. Like, that's what I've it don't matter how nice the restaurant is. You're always gonna have the bully, the know it all. The it's every does not matter how nice the restaurant is. It's it's high school. Oh, on steroids on steroids. So you know how I am. I don't do hive culture, like I'm very like, oh, like you think you just big shot, bitch. I am like, let's be very clear. I'm not gonna be here for a long time. People thought I was kidding. I'll never forget y'all the day that I quit that job because I ended up all you gotta remember, guys. The reason I worked there specifically, I worked nine to five at this small little ad company in Sherman Oaks, like they were doing QVC HSN, I was doing digital project management, and then I would work at that restaurant from 6 p.m. to 2 a.m. Monday through Friday. Okay, like tears, fundamental tears. I was just like, I hate my life right now. What am I doing? But let me tell you something the amount of celebrities I met on a day-to-day basis that started to know my name and my face because they were like, yo, Josh, come and I'm like, yo, what's going on? Kevin Hart, Anico Hart, uh Carucci, Tisha Campbell Martin, like Odell Beckham Jr. Like, I was in the room with Beyonce, uh Pharrell, Mary J. Blige, Jake, um, Jay Z. It was for her birthday. And I'm not sure if you're not gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Now you just now you just name drop it.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

I have to. I have to because there was a reason why I worked there. Yeah, yeah. No, but you get what I'm saying? Like, I needed to be in that room because I said, because of my personality, I was like, I'm gonna meet someone that's gonna have a job opportunity. Like, that's the only reason why I'm here. I don't want to be here more than just to network my ass off. And lo and behold, I knew somebody, Tisha Campbell Martin knew somebody that knew somebody that was like, Hey, Ebony magazine is doing this gala, they want you to go because I just talked you up. And I said, I said, Tisha, we in there. And guys, I remember going there in a goodwill suit with four resumes and four business cards. And I said, I'm walking out this place with a job tonight. And I so I send them my resume, blah, blah, blah. They're like, Okay, cool. So you're around celebrities a lot. I'm like, Yes, all the time. Okay, so you'll deal with checking in the celebs. And I'm like, Abso fucking, yes, yes. And the lo and behold, most of the black celebs that came that night. Which again, very small circle. Everybody that I saw at the restaurant. So they're like, what are you doing? And I'm like, guys, listen, I get the job tonight. And I'm like, yo, y'all need to talk me up in there. Tell them that you know me. And guys, I remember leadership coming out and being like, everyone's talking about you in there. And I'm like, oh my God, no way. Like, get out of here. Me? Me. Willow me. And I was she comes out and she's like, So, what's your story? And I was like, please sit down. And guys, I resume, business card, and pitch myself. And from that moment, I got to LA March of 20, March of 2017. Yeah, March of 2017. Got that job, December 2017.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

Like I was not playing. I was not playing.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

And so from that moment, my career went from being like, okay, I think I'm gonna get into entertainment to officially getting into that business. And the rest is history, like as far as being able to work across the board, to say cognac, Barbie, Miss Universe, ABC, YouTube, like everything just kind of became this culmination of itself on top of each each experience. And you know, I've been here since 2017. I can't believe it. But it's like, you know, LA has been home for me. And as much as the crowd can be fake, I think truly, if you know yourself and you're here for a mission and it's not to get famous or be on or whatever, right? It could really work out for you. But I here's the thing don't stay. Like that's the thing. Like, I think a lot of people, it's the same thing with New York. Like, you don't have to stay here. You can you can go and still be successful. People like, but no, I gotta figure it out here. For why? Like, who told you has to be here? And I think it's our egos, it's all those things where you're like, okay, I gotta figure this out. And it's like, but you don't, and it doesn't mean that you failed, it's just like I don't want to play this game on this level anymore. Well, okay, who cares?

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Even if you did fail, yeah, pivot and keep going, or try something else, or keep going. Like, it's it's like people are so so obsessed with with failure and like being a failure, and I know I am like when I'm trying to do something or thinking about doing something, the first thing I think is like, oh, it's not gonna be that good, or oh, I can't do it. It's just like we're all filled with that self-doubt, and I just try to go back and I try my hardest from what my pop says. He's he said, Don't be afraid to try. Mistakes make you better. Yeah, and it's like fuck, that's so true. Like, just no matter what happens, as long as you're not like a heart surgeon or a brain surgeon, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

They're not really allowed to fail.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Mistakes won't make those people better, they'll be dead. Yeah. So but like doing design and stuff like that, it's it's not that big of a risk. What are we gonna say, Andy?

SPEAKER_02 24:37

I was I just wanted to pick your brain real quick, Josh, about your experience at Ebony. Sure. Um, and like how you felt.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Wait a second. Wait, you just ask about black people?

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Can I?

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Andy, we've had this conversation before, man. Just because we have another black person on the city. Kirk, don't do that. Don't do that. It's not asking. It's not asking Negro, Andy.

SPEAKER_03 24:57

Andy, please, please beautifully ask your question. I do apologize for cousin Kirk. He ain't got no training.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Um we don't have a budget for media training for Kirk, so bad Kirk. Um bad. What it's a it is such a um uh uh well-known brand. And um did you how did you feel about the responsibility of working there? And like, you know, did that get in your head, or were you just like, nope, it's just another brand.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

I'm gonna go out there and express like Andy. It felt right. Like, yes, absolutely. You know what I mean? And and here's my thing like being millennial, Kirk, like that brand to us, like it ain't it's not the same now, and that's no dig or shade to to what Ebony is because now it's it's has to be a media company. All these magazine brands, complex, let me not put complex, uh Essence, Essence, Ebony, like all like these are jet magazine, like these are like home grown, like black owned, like like Martin Luther King was on the covers of these magazines. So, like for me, you know, 2017 was before social media got weird on us. Like, it's weird now. Like, social media is not what it was back then. To be a part of that, I knew for me the whole identity that people don't really understand when it comes to this idea of social media is that when you serve these, these, these brands and these programs, you are serving its North Star. Like, you are literally the the I took it as the face of the brand, right? If I'm gonna flag shifts, yeah. You are the you know what I'm saying, and people back then didn't realize how severe it meant being the voice of that social media channel. Yeah, and like it's not just Instagram, it's Facebook, it's Twitter, it's it's I guess that's all we had back then, right? Like these are these platforms that identify how you are reaching out to your audiences, and so yeah, I went in getting hired as honest development manager, and then y'all again, I came in to be social media manager. I'll never forget when the social media manager was like, You're really good at this. And I was like, Okay, thank you. And she's like, No, you're probably gonna take my job. And this was like my first week, and I was like, Nah, we're cool, like I'm not trying to, but there was some political stuff going on in the back end, and she was like, No, you're gonna take my job. And lo and behold, y'all, within like two months, I ended up getting the social media manager job, like, because they were like, Yo, your stuff is overperforming, and I was like, rightfully so, rightfully so. And and I just remembered when that position happened. I remember, guys, I completely deactivated my Instagram and I said, All cylinders off. Like, I'm gonna get myself into every room that I can because you gotta remember that at ebony.com email is it's your access. Like, I can do whatever I want. Like, I had a leadership that was like, here's the keys to the BMW. Your job is to drive as many people to the website as possible. I was like, I can do whatever I want. They're like, you can do whatever you want. And I said, Cool, I'm gonna go to All Stars, I'm gonna go to Grammys, I'm gonna go to Met Gala, I'm gonna go. I guys, I when I tell you I went ape shit, I literally went, I pitched myself to everything, and this is even before I was like the idea of like you were an influencer, Josh. And I was like, No, I'm just a regular guy, like I'm just a guy that does red carpets because it's fun. When I'm literally like, I'm killing this shit. Like, yeah, yeah, I'm really good at this, like what the yeah. My first interview with Michael B. Jordan, like for Black Panther. I remembered meeting Michael and I was like, I remember, I remember I'm waiting in line, I'm like, this is my life now. Like, I went from restaurants 6 p.m. to 2 a.m. in the morning, working at a really crappy agency in the daytime, to being at this brisk activation with Michael B. Jordan for Black Panther that was coming out in a few days. Like he made it.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

It's it's so cool because like you are you are the American dream. Like, no, listen to me. The whole like the whole concept of it, the whole concept of it is for people to be able to do whatever they want to based upon their lived experience and their personality, sure. And you found your way into the right spaces. I'm not talking about what America is, I'm talking about the original concept of this country, sure, yeah. And and so hearing you talk about ebony, jet, and essence, it's like we grew up on that shit, and that was the only way for us to see ourselves. On occasion, you would get like Oprah or Denzel on the cover of people or something like that. But I thought I remember like picking up one of those like, oh my god, it's all black people because I grew up. There was a bunch of white people I grew up. We had like five black families where I was growing up, right? The rest of it was just white white people, and so seeing that always made me feel like, oh damn, this is cool, there's more stuff out there for people like us, and then hearing you tell this story, and then as much as people don't like to talk about it or say it, I say that 85% of black people are usually there to support themselves, other black people, right? Like when you see a black person, you walk in down the street and see a brother, the head nod, right? It's like everybody is like, no matter what, there's a brethren. I was driving one day, side note, tangent. Um, and I live in I live in Santa Cruz, and I was driving down this road one day, and I saw this brother walking with this woman. I'd seen the woman before, but I'd never seen a brother. I said, I rode up to him, I rolled down the window, I said, Oh, damn, another black person in Santa Cruz. He goes, Oh, you know what's up. Came over, we dapped it up, and then I took off. But it was just like one of those things, man. And and hearing you talk about how people navigated to you, or they were just like attracted to you and your personality speaks volumes because I felt the same way. And there's certain people who are put here on this planet that have an energy and or and a vibe to them. Um, and you definitely have that. So it's it's it's so good to hear these stories and hear how you got into it. Now, as you're at Ebony and you're doing all this stuff, what comes next for Josh in this journey? What's like when's the point where you say, damn, I'm sick of doing this shit? Yeah, you kind of do your you do your own thing.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

Yeah, I first of all, I appreciate that so much, Kirk, because I think it's really hard for people to concept create the concept of being first generation, right? Like my whole family came to the States in the 80s, like mid 80s, late 80s, like or 70s, something like that. I can't, they all it's it's my entire family did not, they weren't American. So all this, all this Miami stuff, and and my mom, I went from going to schools in South Miami in Miami, North Miami Beach, to my mom putting me in schools in Coral in Coral Springs. Like, Andy, we're talking about 45 minutes uh more north, and like going from being multiple black kids in a class gifted to like okay, you're gonna be one of two students in these classes, and so for a very long time, being in these white suburban areas, there's there's um, I don't, I don't, I want to be very careful as I say this, but you kind of put whiteness on a pedestal of like, okay, I have to I have to be like them, I have to be the kid invited to the bar mitzvahs or the bar mitzvahs, like I have to always be the only one in the room because that means I'm doing something correct. And so, you know, navigating these spaces uh from high school to college and trying to understand the idea of blackness and what that really means, and and all that doesn't come till late for somebody like me who grew up in the suburbs, right? Like, people don't we don't we don't talk about that enough because even black people are like you ain't black enough, and if I'm not black enough, why am I Ebony? Shut up, exactly. You know what I'm saying? Like for me, for me that phrase that phrase bothers the fuck out of me. Well, Kirk, you're not gonna fix it today. So, what are we finna do? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, it it's it's the uncomfortable truth, it's ignorant as hell, but it's our people doing that to each other, and so there's so many like very well-versed anime-obsessed Caribbean people who were bullied all through high school and middle school because we weren't black enough. Mind you, all the black people watching anime now. Now it's cool to now it's cool to fuck with anime. I'm like, y'all tired, like y'all are tired. But my thing is with with working at Ebney, it's solidified for me like the crazy notion, like I can do this the way that I want to do this. Like, I don't have to here's the here's the thing about Hollywood, and I and I'm always honest about this. There's always a moment you do something that you don't want to do in order to get to the next step. Now, whether whether that's you being an actor, you could be you could be Lupita Niango and be in a room with Harvey Weinstein and have to let this dude fill you up, right? Or you're working at a top streaming company and have to screw over your co-worker to get that job, and that person gets laid off. Like, there's all for some reason, I don't know why, it's part of this ecosystem. Like, you have there's always this one thing that you do that you regret to get to the next phase. And I feel like every one of us are always guilted with this thing of like, I have to do this one shit 80 thing for my next opportunity, and then you end up in the Diddy documentary, like being a part of all of this stuff, and and I'm being very, very careful with this because it may not seem like big the moment you do something that you don't want to do, you are now like you sold your soul. Like, and I know this sounds dramatic, but the moment you do something that you don't want to do to get to the next thing, you're in the situation where like I just feel like it's not I'm in control anymore. And I think for me, every decision I've said, okay, I'm out, is because something foul was happening, and I'm not gonna put any brand out there, but every job has just been like, we're doing what to who, why? And it's like, listen, you're gonna get your check. I'm like, nah, I ain't gonna do this. I ain't gonna do this. So for me, those are the moments, Kirk, where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna just walk away. Because if if I didn't go through what I went through, obviously, Kirk, you and I both know what happened during COVID. I I would probably be at an illustrious brand right now doing something super shiny, but I would have done, I would have burned a lot of bridges, screwing somebody, screwing a whole team of people that worked very hard and got laid off and didn't get any any severance or anything for giving years to a brand. And so for me, it's is it easy? Absolutely not, doing the right thing. What's hard about it is trying to stay in these ecosystems and be like, okay, well, I'm not gonna do no shady shit, though. And it's like, okay, well, then you're not gonna work here, and it's like, okay, that's the hard part, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

If that answers your question, no, it it it's it does, and it's nice to hold steadfastness. That's why I was talking about earlier. Like when I introduced you, I said you you you're steadfast and rooted in your principles, like that's that's who you are, and there's always gonna people be people out there, and the moment you decide to do something a little a little different, right? It's like the it's like the frog being boiled. Yeah, you don't you don't throw a frog in a hot a hot bath, you throw it in like a nice lukewarm pot, and you just turn up the heat, and before you know it, the frog's boiled, and that's kind of the same thing, yeah. And and when you decide to no longer work at Ebony and you were doing other things, what was your main goal in mind? Like, what was the goal you were thinking? Like, I want to do this, like I want to be a social media expert, I want to be I want to go back and have my own brand on the QVC HSN HSN network. What what was your what were you what was your thought process or what were you thinking to get to what the next level was?

SPEAKER_03 36:19

Yeah, I I think it's a great question. I think what's really hard is I'm never gonna have the experience that Ebony gave me. Like at that time, at that moment, with that power, in that position. I was like 23 years old, like with all of this incredible power to do like amazing things for black people, like and not do no shady shit. Like, I had a whole year and a half of like just clean, dope work, Jada Pink and Smith, Red Table Talk, like these amazing things of like there was no burning a bridge, or you know, you get what I'm saying? Like, I had this entire creative control and freedom to build a platform completely on my own, my own volition. I don't think I've had that. Well, I'll say that with DUCE kind of DUCE Kanye with Rock Nation, but even that had its barometers, like to have full Kirk, full creative control, like that's you know what I'm saying? Like, it's me and Canva, it's me and Canva, it's it's my world and you're living in. And to watch this platform grow from like when I came in, it was like 200,000, and by the time I left, it was almost a million followers, like organic, not paid, not like that. That for me was a godsend for like the capabilities of not only me as a social media strategist, but as a a I guess systems and understands what it means to to build a bridge between okay, you're a brand, how do you get to the people? And it doesn't happen overnight, you know what I mean? And I think for me, I've just been so lucky to go into different brands across the board, State Farm and Goodyear and Lacanita's IPA, and like whether they're long-term opportunities or six months, four months. I come up in there and I'm just like, I tell people this all the time, like, y'all remember Nanny McPhee, or gonna hate me, and then you're gonna be mad I'm gone because yeah, I'm trying to I'm seeing what's everything here. Y'all make it like it's this pretty pony. The pony got one broken leg, it's got bad breath, it's got gingivitis, it all of these growing pains, these growing pains that nobody wants to like say out loud. And it's like, hey, I can't do my job if your if your social copy team is drowning or your graphic team is drowning, or sales doesn't have a proper form of how we're getting our content to the like and every time I come into a place, Kirk, I'll just be like, It's not is that a dead body? That's a dead ass body, that's a dead body, and it smells, and no one is saying anything. No one's saying anything, and so they just they just keep they just keep launching the Febreze and plugging the plug-in, you know, and it and it's just like it's so crazy because people will hire me all the time, Andy. Oh my god, I love how like you're so like out of pocket, or like you're yeah, you just say it, you know, like we love that. And I'm like, okay, cool. And then you bring me in, and it's like, okay, you know what? That whole thing that you were doing, uh can you just shut it all down? Can you do it? Can you just not do it? And it's yeah, I'm I'm confused. I thought my the diversity of my portfolio, the fact that I'm somebody that wants to get results with you, but we have to go through that that hard part, it's not gonna be honeymoon forever. That's what I keep noticing. Where especially where it's majority white-facing brands, where it's like, okay, y'all gonna bring me in here, we're gonna have to let go of some of y'all, y'all white employees and bring in some some people of color because y'all don't know what's going on in the ecosystem that is social media, and it's like, we didn't we didn't agree to that. No, no, no, no. You hired me and said you're you're willing to let me shake the table, yeah. And as soon as we shake the table, here go here he go. Here he go. Yeah, you know, so yeah, but that's been the North Star for me. Like, not coming in and shaking things and being this chaos builder, but it's hey, can we make this better? Can we can we elevate this? Can we do this? Because Kirk, tell me I'm wrong. And Andy, you might not know this, but so often, especially in the social media space, this is a majority black women-led space, like black, black women cultivate culture um social media because yeah, my yeah, my wife's following, yeah, like uh Miss Gillary and who else.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

There's all kinds of like leaders and activists that she follows, and they're all black women. And it's like, and and she's white, right? She's Jewish, and she follows all these black these black influencers and black professionals, and it's and it's all women, and and there's a reason. I mean, we're not even we can't even get into the the entire like hemisphere and world of the importance of black women in this world, yeah, uh and society. But the one thing that you were mentioning is having an idea to make things better, as opposed to just trying to implement shit for the sake of implementing shit. Correct. Like, and that's and that's what people don't understand, like because they probably the ones doing it. Anytime you get a new marketing person, the marketing person has to get in in the company and spread their wings and show what they know and redo the brand and everything else, just because they're trying to make their own their own roots, as opposed to like actually analyzing what's going on there and then making the proper adjustments and pivots, and they may not be simple, they may not be, they're definitely not gonna be uh painless, but they're able to make pivots to help the company adjust and move forward, and that's the problem. People people see change as being disruptive and bad as opposed to change being adaptive and good, right? Like that's the whole thing, and and and the person doing it needs to have a vision, and they also need to be able to explain their vision to people to help them to help them come along as opposed to just start doing shit. Yeah, so you're not the type of person that's gonna be like do this is how we're gonna do it, this is why we're gonna do it, and this is what's happened based upon my experience before. Correct, right? It's correct, it's it's not that hard.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

People case studies sort of showing yes, you know, what what the where the decision tree, you know, and sort of like not just saying like I want to change the font. Well, why? Why do you want to change the font? The why this this is clearer, you know, it reads better, it's more on Brian, blah blah blah. Change with intention, yes, yeah, yes and also I would hope that Josh, by this time, your reputation precedes you in that, and I don't mean like, oh, he's hard to work with, or he's this, it's that we all know, we all know he gets results, and you want to if your your brand is at a inflection point, you bring this person in to change to to shake things up, and it seems like you're building that or you've you've built that versus, but it sounds like there is some tension there because you do go in and people are like, All right, here you go, and you're like, All right, we got to do all this, and they're like, No, we don't want to do any of that. Right. So it seems like you're still building that some, but still, like I've known you for since we direct messaged a couple weeks ago and into this about hour-long conversation, and I would already know that, like, okay, if I'm gonna bring you in, I need to be open to to shaking things up. Yeah, right. So, yeah, so it seems like I mean, shame on them for not doing their homework or whatever, but but yeah, it but it seems like you're definitely not willy-nilly, just like I want to do this because I want to keep building my personal brand and I want to do this. No, it's like I want to do this because this is what the brand needs. You asked me to do this and this is what it needs. Yeah, change with intentions.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

Um well, I love that you said the intention part, Andy, but I think the truth is I care too much. But that's that's the real that's the real thing. Like the saving grace in the last the saving grace in the last two The saving grace in the last two years is it's I need to care less because here's the thing. That entire time I was at Ebony, I should have had a manager, I should have had a PR person, and I should have been selfishly putting myself in all these spaces as just Josh David. Not and I it took me a very long time to like stop putting my entire self into brands because as a person of color, black people go into these spaces, and you're like, I'm gonna give you guys all of me. And nobody learns until several years down the line. Somebody like Kirk is like, listen, don't do that shit, don't be stupid, because you're gonna give them all of your essays, and then guess what? You get laid off, you get fired, like all these things happen. Yeah, and and I'm gonna say this and it's gonna freak y'all out. But people love the idea of black women, you don't like black women though, right? And I agree, I was raised by a single black woman, like so. I adhere to I can't help but have these certain like qualities that yes, I'm a black man, I have a penis, but I have a certain way of living about the world that was taught by a black woman. I'm not ashamed of that. A lot of niggas are, uh, but I'm not, and so how I navigate these spaces. If you follow my LinkedIn, majority of my following is black women. That's the only reason why I'm even at 13,000 plus followers because sisters are always pushing my shit forward, yeah, and I'm not gonna fight that. The problem is too often black men are forced into these certain kinds of ecosystems where yes, where Andy, I'll go in like I'm only here to be shiny and I'm not gonna, you know, whatever. And it's like, okay, but then how are you going to uplift and do better? Listen, I'm black, I'm a man, I can't shake the table too much. I'm trying to be best friends with Ryan and Brad. Fuck Ryan and Brad. Like, move with and you see what I'm saying. So when you move different, like I've seen black women go into spaces during COVID, D E I was code word for bring black women to be our nannies, and like burp and feed these leadership, burp and feed the stakeholders. About this black woman, this black woman, and this black woman. I mean, and they would just completely turn companies around. Bazoma St. John is a story more than people want to discuss because she continuously kept dipping out of places after a year. Can I be real? I don't want to stay at a place after after a year because you know what? Y'all done pissed me off. I done got my check, I done fixed it up, it got you stale, it got stale, I'm out. And I know it's tough for people. Well, that means you don't know how to last at places. No, no, no, no, no. I'm leaving before you start to hate me because you like the idea of me, you like the ideas that I bring. You don't want to do the work that comes with it, you don't want to do the intentional work, and that means uncomfortable conversations. That means you may be shit at your job, I may be shit at my job, but nobody wants to do that. Like, let's sit down and figure this out. Instead, let's hire Kirk and Andy to do the other things that Josh. Okay, before you hire them, are they what we need? Right. Yeah, are they what we need, or or is it your friend's son's uncle's brother that you putting on a job because you need a check?

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Like, yeah, you get what I'm saying? Uh-huh. Yeah, and it's it's interesting too. And I I'm happy you mentioned something about being black in the corporate space because people at work, um, I I'm blunt. I'm I'm at this point now in my life where I've had to do that shit where I had to get along with Chad and Thad and Brad and Matt and whoever, right? And and Sarah and Becky and whoever. And it's like I'm at I'm not I don't care now. I'm I'm just gonna say what I have to say, I'm gonna be who I have to be. And the thing is, is people like it, people love it. But people who don't like it are leadership. They're always the ones who are gonna question it because you're outshining them. Like when people come to me and tell me about shit that's going on at work, I've had I've had at least 50 different people tell me their stories, and I don't talk about their stories to other people. Like they confide in me because they trust me, because they know I'm real, and it's like people have a hard time dealing with the real, they want the perceived shiny black trophy of what they what real for their perceived performative clout because they have a black person working there, but they don't want the entire person as they are, and it's just everything you're saying is just spot on, especially in fucking social, right? When you have a social media place and you're or you're doing social media or any type of marketing or public facing stuff, people want you to be a certain way, look a certain way, act a certain way, say a certain thing, and toe the line in regards to loyalty towards who you're working for. Correct, yes, sir. As opposed to just being you. You hired me to be me, so let me cook. Correct. And if it causes you to feel bad or have some ruffles, I'm not here, I'm not here. I shouldn't say I'm not here to make friends, but that's not my priority. Right?

SPEAKER_03 48:59

So okay, go ahead, Girl. I'm gonna let you finish.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

So people are saying, Oh, you can't have you shouldn't have co-workers as friends. You shouldn't, it's like you should, but you should also know that co-worker and and know that they're not gonna fuck you over. That's what you need to know. And I and I have tons of people at my job now who I love, who are good people, who are like all aligned and all socially aligned, uh politically aligned, it's like and I vibe with them. But let's do this, and then you'd be like, Hey, I heard you do this.

SPEAKER_03 49:30

No, sorry, we're gonna say I was gonna say, and Andy, let me know if there's something that you wanna pick up on this combo. Um, because I know you're black and you've probably been through the struggle as well. Yes, but black, but but I I I think there's so much truth to you know, I've I've been in spaces, man, where there's white, black, purple, green, spanish, latin, asian, and all of us were making different different wages. And I mean, what blew my mind was the Asian person was making the lowest, and she was there the longest. Pause, huge pause. You trained all of us, and you're making the lowest wages. That's not a that's not a surprise, it's on purpose, right? Because guess what? An Asian person's not gonna ruffle feathers, most of the time they don't. They are the you know, we hire a minority, and it's like who Sue Sue Lee? They don't they don't Sue Lee don't say nothing at the cop at the corporate office, you don't, you know, he or she, you know, there and it's not a dig at them.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Here's the thing no you're you're you're speaking you're speaking corporate speak correct right now, correct? So you're you're stereotyping based upon corporate speak. Correct. That's not how you believe. That's not what man, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:39

We just talking, yeah, you're you're yeah, and you're speaking facts. It it's it's a hard thing to really wrap our minds around, especially if we're having a Kirk. You and I would have this convo publicly on LinkedIn. Andy, the amount of views that would like I'm talking about 3,000 people looked at it and said, I ain't gonna touch it. I'm gonna look at it, I'm gonna DM him, I ain't gonna touch it. Yeah, because the fear is so loud right now. Because the truth of the matter is the way we've been working as program as as companies, as systems, as structures, isn't sustainable, it's not sustainable. You don't you don't bring in Kirk to come and do graphic design, but Kirk can't lead the entire graphic design team because uh you know Shannon's been here for 10 years, and Shannon is very particular about how she wants things run. Okay, does Shannon is Shannon working on all the active clients right now? No, but Kirk is yes. So, what's Shannon doing here? Well, uh I I asked you a question, you said yes or no, and there's all of these like asterisks and all of these, like you know what I mean? And and the problem for me is like, I think I've I've I've had I have white male mentors and I have black female mentors. I have yet to find a good black male mentor where it doesn't become an ego thing or a strange, a strange situation where it's like, are you helping me? Are you trying to keep me in line? So I don't, you know what I'm saying? And and it's the same thing for opposite sex. Women have said this like, listen, I have tons of black male leaders as my mentors, but I don't got a lot of black women, and a lot of people are not gonna say this out loud, they're just not because it's you don't you don't say this in front of mixed company, but it's a major issue, it's a major issue where it's you want me to be in line, and I think black women navigate corporate spaces a lot better than black men sometimes because I think there's a certain point you get to Kirk's level where you're like, you know, I ain't gonna do this shit no more. Matter of fact, matter of fact, I'm just gonna joke with a couple clients and survive that way because I don't have I don't know how to do the tie thing and be myself, let my hair grow out, have locks, and then climb the ladder, and then play with Brad, Karen, Sue, and everybody's just you know, and and even if you do play that role, when you get to that C-suite, you almost don't recognize yourself because you had to make this sacrifices and adapt.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

And that's that's the same things you were talking about, is sell your soul a little bit. Like it Hollywood is a worser version of high school corporate space, right? Yeah, restaurant, yes, yeah, restaurants, right? So you have to you have to adjust and adapt and and give up a little bit in order to move appropriately through the space. I was asked at my job uh to take on most responsibilities, and I said I can't. And and then like I was talking to my wife, and I said I can't because I know what it would do to me. I can do anything, sure. I have no problem doing anything, anything designed. That's not me bragging, that's just me speaking facts, and I'm really fucking good at what I do. Sure, sure. What I don't want to do is manage people, I don't want to go to a lot of meetings, and I don't want to and in any position where you're quote unquote moving up, the normal way is all perceived that way, like it's all perceived with you having to go from junior designer to designer to senior designer to uh uh art director to cart to creative director to vice president, like whatever it is. Like, and I don't want to do that, I didn't want to do that. And and people who I work with are just like, oh, why? I said, because I've done it, like I just want to design, yeah, do my shit and go home and go home. Yeah, I'm happy doing this. I don't need to be, I don't have to prove anything to anybody, right? Like, that's not why I'm here. And and so when people if you're used to doing it, if you want to do something and you want to move up, that's fine, that's great, you do it, but also too, you have to respect people and meet them where they are, and I think that's what really makes a difference. Like, if you go onto a space, you meet black people where they are, you meet black men, black women, Asian women, Asian men, white, whatever you meet them where they are, and you build off of that as opposed to trying to get them to fit into some mold, and that was the whole point of DEI. It was it's like that's what made this country, that's what makes this country amazing, is the diversity. Like that's what makes it great. And I think that people are so used to acting a certain way and being a certain way, or not to piss off all the the white folks who own shit because if you piss them off, they won't engage you for business. And as they engage you for business, then you can't get business, so you have to continually adjust, and like it's just fucking mind-numbing. Kurt, you see all that noise you just made?

SPEAKER_03 55:08

That's high blood pressure, that's autoimmune disease, that's that's I can't fertilize this egg, that's erectile dysfunction, that's women can't all of this stuff, and people are doing this for 20 years, 10 years. I mean, Andy, I don't know if you I mean, obviously, there's been a lot of innovated information, but like, is there anything from your side that like you have a burning question in your own mind based on like the entire chatter of what me and Kirk have shared thus far?

SPEAKER_02 55:32

Like, no, no, I'm I'm I'm just being a sponge and listening, and it's it's sadly it's you know, just being uh you know, chatting alongside Kirk with a myriad of people. Sure. Um, because we try to intentionally reach out to folks that aren't normally spotlight spotlit on design podcasts, you know, pretty much people that look like me. And so we really try to put our feelers out and bring in a vast variety of voices, and that's what's crazy to me is that it's more common these stories um than not. And um, no, it's just uh you know it's it's familiar territory for us to talk about this and to hear about it. Um but um but no, it's yeah, uh that's that's just what I'm sort of thinking about. Two things.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

One, one, this is my my show about black people, not Andy. Okay. Two, you the guest, man. Your ass ain't supposed to be asking questions. First of all, I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to be inclusive.

SPEAKER_03 56:41

You over here, you over here being out of pocket again to this poor man who gotta sit here and deal with us talking about race again. Like, I know like it. And I know I know it must be exhausting to hear black people talk about this all the time, but like I wish people understood, and I'm sure you do, obviously, knowing Kirk this long. No one's doing this to be problematic. That's the hard part. That seems to be like it. This there's a reason why it's an ongoing theme. Like, I I would gladly love to work at a streaming company that that follows the rules and respects everyone. But but the truth of the matter is you have to know that there's no such thing as a perfect company. We all have to be at grown-ups and understand that. But it goes back to what Kirk said. Why is it that Kirk or a black woman or me are constantly I just feel so safe talking to you? Can I can I come to your office? I I have deliverable sure. What's going on? And it's white, black, purple, or green people come. It's not just black people coming to us, but we don't get paid for that. And I'm not saying that we should, but doesn't that mean something if you have your entire office coming into this person's position, whether their leadership or not, and they're like, Hey, how do I problem solve this, Josh Kirk? I you're my boss. My boss broke down into tears when I quit. Oh, when I quit, she was like, She was like, No, I feel like I'm not a good manager, babe. You're not, but it's okay. Okay, you know what I mean? Like, but but we're talking about a multi-million dollar company that I quit from after eight months, and my boss was like, I feel like I didn't do my job. I'm like, You didn't, but that's not your problem. I'm leaving, right? We we gotta realize, like, I and here's the thing, Kirk, tell me if I'm wrong. By the second week, you know what kind of company you're working at. That's that's all it takes for black people. That that that pattern recognition, you're like less, even less sometimes, sometimes five days. All you need is that first week. Like, okay, I know I'm probably gonna last here about a year, maybe eight months, because you can tell Andy by the tension, yeah, by the awkwardness in the in the group meetings, by the Zoom calls. Like, and I'm like, okay, if no one's being honest, how is the work supposed to get done? And here's the thing tons of people are like, just don't get take it personal. How am I supposed to do my job and not make it personal? I get what you're saying, but I can't get my job done because this one is hack seven sex with this one. This manager's doing blow in the bathroom. Like, I just I everyone's on drugs, and I just want to be able to do my job.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

Like, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it goes it goes back to the um the idea that you need to meet people where they are, correct. You need to understand where people are and and and do what you can to make sure that you're helping them along the way as opposed to hindering them. So that's that's a big thing. Um, I you know, Josh, we're we're up on time, man. Oh Lord, listen. We we just scratched the surface. Man, we haven't even really gotten into it. Oh my goodness. But yeah, um, we we'll definitely we're gonna have you back on because once a Kirk and Kurt's guest.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

Always a Kirk and Kurt guest. There you go. See, he got it. He was waiting for it.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

You was waiting for that, yeah, yeah. Right, and also too everyone listening this for the record, Andy is Andy's my nigga. I don't care what y'all say, that that dude is my nigga, and uh, he may be white, but I love him to death. So when I give him shit, it's all on fun, it's all in love, and and I and I really appreciate him. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

So I actually it's funny, it's like if Kirk treats you like politely and like doesn't really engage with you or like engages on a surface level, then you know he doesn't like you and you're probably doing something wrong. He just wants to get away from you. But yeah, if you just can't, yeah, if you're just getting needled by Kirk, then it means you're doing something right. Damn, that is that's so damn true. I do want to ask Josh what he's up to right now at this very moment. Like what what where what are you working on right now, or um that folks can sort of like look into?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:38

Absolutely. Well, first and foremost, guys, I just want to once again thank you so much for this opportunity to just chop it up with you. I know we didn't talk much on my career per se, but I think what we discussed is what I'm continuing to just navigate in these spaces. Like, I still love doing strategy, still love doing brand strategy. Um, but you know, after traveling through Asia for the last year, you know, I told you guys before we got on this, I just got back in March. And so where I'm at in my life right now is okay, you've been in social strategy for 11 years, right? You know, I I've had so many really dope black professionals like Kirk in my DMs, like, hey, can I get on a call with you? And and they'll just pour into me and they're like, keep doing whatever this is. Like, I I I can't, and I'm like, what do you mean? They're like, your opportunities are gonna come, it's just gonna look different. Keep doing this. And I'm like, doing what? They're like, the way you present the problems, the way you're presenting solutions, the way you're bringing stuff up, and and being able to put it in a little bit of humor. This is important work that you're doing. And I was like, okay, but I still gotta make a check. And they're like, You're going to make a check, you know? And so now it's it's okay, what is Ask Josh David Studios looks like? And it's like, okay, well, listen, I'd love to start doing more conferences, you know, I'd love to be on stage. I don't know what that looks like, right? Like, is that me pitching myself and saying, hey, I want to do um, you know, because it's it's not about just moderating, I want to sit down and actually provide some feedback of these experiences, all right? I'd love to do a TED talk, right? Um, but I I've been lucky enough to just be able to juggle, you know, anywhere from two to four clients at a time and make make a decent rate, right? And and do strategy work. But again, guys, it's always more than just strategy work. I'm I'm doing three or four other things within that job, and I'm like, why is scope creeping always in my neck of the woods? And the truth is I'm addicted to problem solving, and it's because I'm Caribbean and because I was raised in all the craziness where it's like I have and it's and I'm not proud of that, but I think a lot of us as people of color are so used to chaos, and like when have you ever had like a chill, you know, work work like when is I haven't had a chill year since I got to LA, y'all. Like, it's not it's just always been like a not tumultuous, but always a and life is gonna be like that, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:55

And so I I no, you're you're right. We I'm I'm adding on to that, yes, and sure. Black folks have always been the on the forefront of things because we always had to solve for shit. Sure. Necessity is the mother of invention, which is why there's so many things that were invented by black people that are in this that in this society today, and that would look very different if they weren't in our society today. Video conference calling, um, messenger RNA, which helped do the vaccine for COVID. Think of that as you must is going to the fucking moon. The calculations of that was was done by a black woman, Henry Lak. So, all all this shit right is done by black people, and it's true. We have to be sure to give ourselves grace and and get that support that you were talking about because the way you write the videos you make and the way you put things together is heartfelt. People see that, but and it's not it's not a one-off, it's not like you're saying things that are inconsistent, sure. You you speak your mind and you and you bring in current things, like you talk about fucking euphoria, and you talk about right, like all these different shows and things come in, and it's like you're showing you're current, yeah, and and it's good. You're current and you're real, and people don't know what to do with that. There, someone's gonna be like, it's tough, yeah. Someone's gonna be like, Hey man, here's here's five million dollars, do your thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:23

Listen, from your mouth on this video podcast to God's ears. Listen, I and and Kirk, I mean that. Like Andy, I don't know. I obviously I know we just met, but to be able to look at what's happening in media and create some type of line to what's happening on a day-to-day basis in our culture, as more than just black people, as people in general. I I I've gone on interviews, guys, and they're terrified of me. They're like, You're great, but I don't know what the hell we're gonna do with you. Like, they're like they're so and I'm just like, even if I'm trying to tone it down, their recruiters are just like, I don't know what we're gonna do with you. Like you're gonna be you're gonna be bored here. And I'm like, just run me my check. And they're like, No, you're gonna be bored here. And so I'm trying to think of myself outside of just a title and just a biblical role, because the truth of the matter is, I think after 11 years of building all of this experience, it's very hard to put me in one role. But I think at the end of the day, listen, chief marketing, um, you know, the the whole title chasing thing, I'm so over as well. Yeah, I just want to do dope shit, you know what I mean? I want to work with dope people, and you know, somebody told me a mentor told me he hopped on a call, he was like, Listen, bro, from now on, I want you to find your favorite businesses that you want to work for. Just pitch them, you're that good. Like, and I was like, What? He's like, bro, just pitch them what you want to do. Don't ask for a full-time job, just pitch them. Listen, you want to work with them for six weeks, do this. And he's like, I promise you, Josh, if you change your approach, you're gonna make good money. And I was like, Really? He's like, bro, I've been following you for a month, you're fucking wild. I think you really and I was like, You don't even know me. He's like, I see the shit you're putting out, though. You're not approaching this, you can approach this a lot easier. And so, you know, these last couple weeks, bro, I've been guys, I've had like this very like I'm almost afraid of the success that I can have not going about it. The well, my name is Josh David. I am this the chief marketing officer of Uber, you know, like I'm afraid of what that looks like, but I think that's what the scary, beautiful thing is when you're like, you know what, I'm done trying to shrink or be embrace this idea of like, listen, you're gonna see me on stages. I may write a book, I may do a TED talk, but I want to approach this holistically as myself, and and you can either love it or hate it. But one thing's for certain, you're gonna walk away, hopefully, learning something.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:41

You're not gonna be you're not gonna be denied. Um and and when you make it, you're inviting Andy and I on your on your adventure with uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:53

Okay, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

We we're gonna say bye real quick, but don't go anywhere and do a formal goodbye. Okay, and it and then we'll take care of this. I'm Kirk Faisol, I'm the fan and creative director of Mind the Fonts, and I'm here with my good friend Andy Kurtz, Fan and Creative Director of Buttermilk Creative. And you just listen to the Kirk and Curse Design podcast with the amazing Joshua David. Josh, thank you so much for coming on. We'll talk to y'all next time. Love y'all. Peace. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:13

Bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:14

Thank you, guys. All right.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

That was great.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:19

Perfect, man. I appreciate y'all so much, man. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

Thank you so much for tuning in to the Kirk and Curse Design podcast. A very special thanks to our guest, Joshua David. You can find out more about Joshua in the podcast description. Peace.